Isn’t that what Jesus did? He had this amazing and culturally relevant ministry, and is wasn’t because he was a dynamic speaker. Sure, he spoke truth at every occasion, but he always accompanied it up by doing things that fortified the truth he was telling. He showed mercy, he acted compassionately, he washed, he fed, he cried. He never passed up a chance to do.

I typically try to add more to the conversation than this, but I simply must say, “Amen.”

We saw the movie last night; I would encourage you to watch it and THEN review it.  There is some “telling” but a lot of powerful “showing”

A good friend of mine is part of a marketing agency that is promoting Fireproof. I got invited to go see this movie with a group of friends on Saturday night...but I’m not 100% sure if I want to go. I heard a radio ad for the movie as I drove today (every so often I turn on Christian radio, but I get tired of it really fast). I cringed all the way through it, and turned the radio off afterward and shook my head.

The question burning in my heart is this: Are we really doing justice to God’s name, and His ways, by putting out mediocre films like this?

And furthermore, do we really think we can “change” the culture if we keep going about it with an “us and them” mentality? I was listening to a podcast yesterday (Steelehouse Productions--they are creative geniuses)and they said that if we are really going to engage people when it comes to culture, we have to stop thinking that there is some gap to bridge between God and culture. There is no gap. We can be immersed in culture (in a healthy way) bring God into that as Christians, and in turn pull people out of the toxic cultures of our day.

There’s so much more to say...but I’ll leave it at that. Thanks for the thought-provoking post as well, Shaun. Showing vs. telling seems so simple, but it’s an art to mastered when it comes to films.

YUP.
Well said.
Telling>showing>doing>being. If you stop at telling, nobody becomes.

I saw the movie a couple of months ago with fellow bloggers.

Definitely more telling than showing.

Great thoughts!

So are you telling us this or showing us this?

Just kidding.

Honestly, I’m the last one who would be ever defending mediocrity, but for some reason, I’m just tired of hearing people bash films like this.

My parents who are pastors in a small town church that is reaching people love these films. They aren’t better or worse at “being” Christian because they enjoy these films.

Ripping up Christian subculture is the new pink which a few years ago was the new black.

I’m sure we all could do better if we did it our own way.

Problem is there are a lot of people offering opinions about how we could do/be better but nobody’s stepping up to do it.

Solution: make a better film that does everything you’re talking about.

I’ll chime in with my amen. I haven’t seen the movie, so I can’t say too much, but I am to the point where I don’t want to watch any “Christian” movies, and I’m a Christian. Most of them are an embarrassment, for alot of the reasons you mentioned.

And I do listen to, and enjoy, Christian music, but I love it when I find someone more subtle. I also listen to “nonChristian music” for that reason. I like having to think about the lyrics to understand what the artist was trying to say. (And some of my favorites of your songs are probably some of the ones you get blank stares from.)

This is much along the lines of what any good English professor will tell you. Good poetry and good fiction shows, it doesn’t tell.

When you show, you appeal to far more than the intellect. Therein lies the beauty and, in a sense, the danger.

You’ve hit the nail on the head. Well done.

I recommend the book “Addicted to Mediocrity” by Franky Schaeffer to further understand this topic. There is a theory regarding cheesy “Christian” art that is worth looking into

Shaun I am not entirely clear about what you mean by telling.  The first time I heard the dictum “show, don’t tell” was in my eleventh grade English class.  In that context what our teacher meant was “don’t overuse your omniscient narrator.” Describe characters by their actions and words, comment on situations by showing their consequences. 

I’ve not seen the movie but what I’m assuming you mean is that the characters portrayed in the film are given to over-analysis and sermonizing that is unrealistic for who they have been shown to be.  To me that’s less of a problem because it is not a fundamental flaw of the story telling but rather of characterization (like if a pastor gave a sermon we wouldn’t have a problem with it.) … you have to forgive my over-analysis but I’m a sometimes playwright and amateur dramaturge so I have spent some time thinking about things like this.

You say “Have you ever seen the movie gang member or the mafia guy or the serial killer go to his son and explain his philosophical and moral position on violence in a long chunk of dialogue? Again, heck no.” But I say that is more a matter of the character’s motivation… if the plot of the story is serial killer dad wants to convince reluctant serial killer son that killing is good I’ll bet there would be some dialogue about it.  Or how about just in real life, my parents do a lot of telling to me. 

There is also in my view a difference in saying, “violence is acceptable” versus “violence is good.” I’m with you that a bunch of movies say, “violence is acceptable.” It’s a lot harder and uncommon to get a “violence is good” message across.  I think this movie is saying “unconditional love of your wife is good,” a more difficult proposition than say “unconditional love for your wife is sweet when it happens.” The dad is saying “Please Kirk Cameron(‘s character and also the rest of the world) start acting this certain way all the time.” That’s his character’s motivation.  I find a movie like The Notebook to be more of the “isn’t it sweet” variety; no one is trying to convince or change each other.

So who does write with the “doing this thing is good” message in mind?  Commercial writers.  So in a way I see this movie as a big commercial.  And what do I know about commercials? First, some are better than others with better dialog and characterization.  But also… commercials work, they sell things and convince people “candidate X is good.” I guess it also could be called propaganda.

From the reviews I have read I think most would agree that the insufficiencies of “art” makes the movie a less successful commercial.  But is it bad just for being a commercial? For being Christian propaganda?

I’d recommend “The Magic of Ordinary Days” a novel that was adapted into a tv movie for Hallmark Hall of Fame.  It is full of lovely metaphors for love and spiritual adoption, etc. It’s a favorite of mine. It’s subtle but it really speaks to me about God’s nature.

I’m stuck in the middle on stuff like this.  I do think we could do better, but we also could learn how to be content when we simply don’t have more.
--
I do agree with you about trying to be “Christian enough”.  It’s hard to make a song (etc.) that communicates well while still being honest about how you feel.  Sometimes I’ll write something, but instead of just writing how I feel about the situation I tend to also force myself to write something good about God.  We need to bring Him glory in our music, no question about that.  But it just ruins the mood and becomes pure hypocrisy (which is worse than being vague) when I don’t mean what I say.
--
Russ said: “Problem is there are a lot of people offering opinions about how we could do/be better but nobody’s stepping up to do it.” Yep, well said!

Erin KT, very good analysis.  And you don’t know who you’re talking to if you think you can possibly overanalyze relative to me. ; )

Yes, I think in film it’s a matter of characterization, as you said.  And I don’t know enough about film to know whether or not sermonettes in general are “bad” - I just don’t think they’re effective.  A movie is not a commercial.  or at least the audience doesn’t expect it to be.  And so if they get one when what they thought they were getting was a movie, well…

Russ, I’m not bashing anybody.  I admitted these guys did a great deal with the tremendous limitations they have to work within.  But this isn’t little league.  Everyone doesn’t get a ribbon for trying.  This is the marketplace.  Not just of products but of ideas.  And if you’re not ready to compete in that marketplace why enter it?  If you do enter it don’t expect me to cheer your product just because you’re a Christian.  I’ll cheer a product I think, subjectively, is good.  And this one isn’t.

There’s a lot of mediocre music that’s come out of me.  And more surely will.  I don’t expect a pass on that from Christians.  I would never ask for one.

Shaun,
Has your songwriting improved since college? How about since your first record? Are you continuing to grow?

How are you as a stage performer? Are you stronger now than when you first opened for another act?

Are you stronger today as a writer or prose than you were in 2001? A public speaker?

You’ve been in the marketplace. The marketplace has made their judgments about you and your music.

Sure, the marketplace will make their decisions about the Kendrick brothers as well.

I would argue that they are growing as filmmakers and storytellers. All three of their attempts--while lacking in many ways--hold together because of the stories they communicate.

The most serious concern, I think, is not that these filmmakers are just getting started and not yet very good at their craft. It’s that the (American) subculture in general, doesn’t expect good art, and in fact is suspicious of good art.

It often seems like if we (American Christians) had had our way, God wouldn’t have given us a book of history, poetry, stories, hymns, biographies, letters, apocalyptic visions. He’d have given us a PowerPoint presentation.

I think Shaun’s point is good: the world is skilled at communicating its view subtly and effectively. We are the people of the God who created an unimaginable variety of worlds. We are the people of the God who redeemed and is redeeming and will redeem that world. We are the people in whom the Spirit of the living God dwells. Why is it that we can’t come up with better stories than the enemy of souls? Why should the devil have all the good stories?

Also, I don’t think it’s a proper response to say, “You can’t criticize this movie (song, novel, painting, sermon, other) if you can’t do better.” I am pretty sure I can’t make a better movie than “Facing the Giants” (haven’t seen “Fireproof"). I am pretty sure I can’t write a better book than “Left Behind”. But it seems obvious to me that the Body of Christ ought to be able to produce better stories than those.

I would argue that they are growing as filmmakers and storytellers. All three of their attempts--while lacking in many ways--hold together because of the stories they communicate.

I’m sure they are.  Good reminder.  Thanks, Mark.

I just noticed a typo in my first paragraph above: I meant “the (American) Christian subculture”, not “the (American) subculture”.

OK, all better now.

This is why I don’t do Christian culture.

Shaun,

I meant bashing in it’s most broad sense

I keep hearing over and over again this “disdain” of subculture art and marketplace talk. But when you just let the chips fall where they may there IS a market for these films. Just as there is a market for cheesy, low-budget films that for some strange reason gain cult-like following...Napoleon Dynamite, Holy Grail, Princess Bride, etc.

I agree with you, if it’s a good story it will resonate, if not it won’t. My argument is that if you and I call it bad art, but someone else really enjoys it then is it really bad art or is it just bad art to me?

People think “Welcome Home” is about Heaven?

That scares me.

This morning my wife & I attended a worship service where a man and his wife rededicated their wedding vows after 10 years, and two adulterous encounters on the part of the man. Their “Christian” marriage was nearly ruined by internet pornography and his selfish behavior. Fortunately for the wife and three young children, God’s grace is greater than all our sin. The wayward man found forgiveness at the cross, and from his family. It was a sweet time of worship.

We (and several friends from church) watched the movie tonight with all of that in our mind. I sat next to a blind woman, so I became her visual interpreter. We enjoyed the movie, and our group from church and the folks around us enjoyed it too, even though I was a distraction each time the scene changed. The audience seemed engaged…they laughed at the humorous spots and some even told the main character “don’t click” when they were convinced that he needed their help to do the right thing.

I don’t know much about the church (or the pastor of that church) that is making these films, so I don’t know what they may be thinking as they make and market them. But I do know this…if God could use a film like this to impress on the hearts of young believers the dangers of internet pornography and selfish behavior…on young men like the two high school students from our youth group that watched this film with us, then this church’s effort will be worth it. So let’s make more movies about Jesus-y stuff and hopefully all those church groups that come and see it will act more Jesus-y.

I don’t want to spoil the movie for those who haven’t seen it yet...but a sweet tea from Chick-fil-a plays an important role in the movie…

But Shaun, you have to see this movie.  According to cbd.com, “Any movie that has in its credits a “prayer coordinator,” you should see.”

Shaun—you wrote, “So let’s make a movie about Jesus-y stuff and those same people will come see it and act more Jesus-y.”

Such cynicism about the Christian’s passion to share the redemptive love of Christ. Hm. Maybe it’s time to leave Nashville, Shaun.

Maybe you should see the movie before you continue diminishing it. Maybe you should be a bit more careful in discouraging others from seeing it; as many have remarked (who have seen it)—this movie can be life-changing.

So, let me get this straight.  I can’t post an unfavorable opinion of a movie because doing so is cynical.  But you can post an unfavorable opinion about ME and you’re not a cynic?

I could sure use a definition of “cynicism” about now.

Shaun, it’s not about your unfavorable opinion about this movie, a movie you’ve not yet seen. It’s about the suspect motivations you ascribe to those who made it.

Your cynicism is in dismissing as merely “Jesus-y” the efforts of members of a church who are wanting to impact the world with the gospel. They’re not passionate about engaging the world with truth well-conveyed, you imply, but are merely inserting “Jesus-y stuff” in order to make a buck or placate unrefined church-goers.

If someone’s motivations for creating art is not “art for art’s sake,” but rather is to communicate the redemptive love of Christ, are they merely injecting some “Jesus-y stuff” into what’s otherwise mediocre? If someone is more a “Christian” than an “artist,” does that necessarily mean that their art is therefore less honorable?

Your cynicism is in dismissing as merely “Jesus-y” the efforts of members of a church who are wanting to impact the world with the gospel.

I’ve not dismissed their efforts. I’ve critiqued ONE aspect of their effort while applauding, at the same time, what they were able to accomplish with such small resources.

They’re not passionate about engaging the world with truth well-conveyed, you imply, but are merely inserting “Jesus-y stuff” in order to make a buck or placate unrefined church-goers.

What I actually admitted was that I have no idea why this movie sermonizes when the makers could have chosen to show.  I confessed tat I’ve made the same decisions before when creating music.  And then I confessed why it is I’ve done that.

And why I’ve done that was in part to placate an audience (conservative evangelical female white Christians - proven to be the majority of the Christian music buying audience) who have at times been very critical of my music (and others’ when has not been overtly Christian enough for their taste/theology.  And, unfairly to you, I argue this point can’t be denied unless you’ve stood on as many stages as I have, played music that’s every bit as overtly Christian as Christ’s parables and then had your motivations and even salvation questioned by members of the audience because you simply chose to speak in metaphors and not sermon language.

I’ve voiced a preference, and called it such.  I’ve not made a moral judgement anywhere in this post.  I’ve not demeaned. I’ve not name called.  I’ve simply said, in way too many words, that I am less excited about this movie than Ted because this films one flaw is a big one to me personally.  NO doubt my own baggage place into my taking that flaw so seriously.

If someone’s motivations for creating art is not “art for art’s sake,” but rather is to communicate the redemptive love of Christ, are they merely injecting some “Jesus-y stuff” into what’s otherwise mediocre? If someone is more a “Christian” than an “artist,” does that necessarily mean that their art is therefore less honorable?

No and no.  And I’ve never said such a thing. Now, who is ascribing motivations?

Watching “Gentleman’s Agreement” with Gregory Peck and Dorothy McGuire yesterday made me think of this post.  It was a movie about anti-semitism and it had some very forceful “sermons,” quite like I imagine Fireproof has.  I thought about this post afterward, because I liked the film, despite the sermons.  It made me think about racism and my first introductions to it.  It made me think about how a soccer teammate in high school had talked about “Jewing somebody down” at a garage sale, and how another Jewish teammate protested and was laughed at, and how I said nothing in his defense.  It made me think about these things, not just by showing me, but by telling me. 

Now, perhaps Gentleman’s Agreement was flawed because of the preachiness.  Perhaps it would have been more effective without it.  I don’t know.  But I do think that it is a minor flaw, not a major flaw.

I haven’t seen Fireproof, so I don’t know how effective it is for myself.  However, I do know some volunteer staff for the local Retrouvaille group, and they all loved the film.  Retrouvaille has people in the trenches helping save marriages all around the world.  If they overwhelmingly liked Fireproof, then I think it will probably be helpful for people struggling in their marriage and needing some encouragement to hang in there.

MB

Shaunsie (can I call you Shaunsie? No? Not a fan of Boy Meets World? Never mind.), Anyway! Hummingbird is my favorite of yours. And Welcome Home is certainly not about heaven. I just felt the need to fill you in. In spite of everyone and their brother telling me that Fireproof is AMAZING!, I can’t muster enough interest to actually go and see it. Facing the Giants may have scarred me for life. Amazing Grace however, there’s a quality movie that was marketed as “Christian”. Good stuff.

As far as good Christian-themed movies go, I would recommend “To End All Wars.” (Deservedly rated R.)

Catching up on blogs this morning I thought you might enjoy Chip MacGregor’s review:

http://chipmacgregor.typepad.com/main/2008/10/the-art-of-fireproofing.html

I really loved how he said anecdotal stories don’t create truth.  Reminded me of you and Brant.

I see what you’re saying.  I do wish you would go see the movie though, and then maybe write a review based on that (from what you wrote I’m gathering that you have just seen previews and not the movie). I have read many testimonies about how this movie has strengthened marriages.

I do understand what you’re saying and yes it could’ve done better I’m sure.  It may not accomplish all the goals it had or that we have for a movie made by Christians, but I do think it has had a positive influence and as such deserves our support.

By the way, I always enjoy your blog, and I can’t remember if I commented or not, but I loved the post about the kids in the lunchroom!  Oh, and I am a big fan of Compassion.  Keep up the good work!

I think he said in his latest blog that he did see it. And before anyone takes what I’m about to say as Criticism of Fireproof, it isn’t.  I’ve always been wary of accepting something that is “Packaged” as being Christian as if its being marketed to me only because of a label.  I remember in the 90s when I first got access to a Christian radio station and thinking that wow, God Must be moving, look at all these new folks singing about God and his grace. 

After watching for ten plus years now I’ve seen many of them did not last.  Some broke up, quit, or encountered other rigors that dropped them from the market.  Some over the years seemed to perform music which invariably was no different then the early stuff, but also did not show a progression of growth from the artists as individuals.  Now, does that mean they weren’t Christian?  No.  Does that mean, their message was not Christian, not necessarily, but bear in mind that when someone is making a movie, giving a speech, writing a song.  Many times As Shaun has so Eloquently put, you find yourself tempted to just give the audience what it wants to hear.

Earlier in my life, when I was a much younger Christian, that is what I desired.  I’ve found that is no longer the case.  As I’ve matured as a Christian, I’ve found that I enjoy and benefit more from lyrics which challenge me to a higher standard, things which remind me that I’m not the only one going through trial.  I love Praise and Worship music for where it is best exhibited, in a Service, but there is so much more to our Experience with God than just praise and worship.  In fact, lately, I’ve been feeling that the entire praise and worship sub section of music has become more and more diluted.

Now, how does this relate to Fireproof?  I’ve not the seen the movie.  The last two “Christian Movies” I’ve seen were Joshua and Facing the Giants.  Both were movies that I currently have for home viewing.  I liked Joshua because it made me think about how I deal with other people, I loved facing the giants, because it encourages, uplifts, and inspires to stand for what God wants and let him determine the results.  In fact Facing the giants is so powerful, that during a conversation with a neighbor who was disappointed in the local high school football team’s performance, it brought to mind to ask if anyone had thought to encourage this coach and the teenagers he has influence over to strive for their best regardless of the outcome.  I lent my DVD to him to see for himself, and after viewing he agreed that those in the community that were criticizing were likely not helping the situation.

Now I’ll reserve comments on Firewall till I get the opportunity to see it.  My mother in law saw it (she doesn’t watch many films), and she loved it.  I’ve not had a chance to really ask her why she loved it, but it did have an impact on her.  We must remember that not every message is for each of us right now.  There are many passages of scripture that as I’ve grown have more and fuller meaning added to it before the last time I read it.

So in summary, I’m always nervous about seeing “christian films”.  Not because I’m expecting them to be bad, but you never know what you getting in to with out knowing a lot about the plotline ahead of time.

really good observation