I’ll go out on a bit of a limb here: Yes, I love all your posts about Compassion, music, creativity, selflessness, simplicity, peace, the Beatitudes, blah blah blah, etc., etc., etc.,… but…

Best post ever?  I think so.

I just don’t know what to say about that.  Really, at a loss for words.  Can I share the post with my wife?  Will she think it is funny?  Or is it a good way to end up in the dog house?

Agreed. Best post ever.  We don’t even have kids and finding time for making out is hard enough. 

Maybe I just need to hire a housekeeper, an on call professional mover (since we seem to do so much of it anyway), and an assistant, and a ghost writer.

I’m also lived in San Angelo growing up so maybe sayin’ “ain’t nothing wrong with that thur polygamy” is part of my formative years.

Just sayin.

I guess libido is the reason polygamy with multiple husbands and one wife never really took off, huh?

So what would she say is the advantage of polygamy over maids and nannys, etc?

Watch out now...the guberment might just come in and take yer kids away!

It’s official, I covet your wit, your reason, your fan-flippin-tastic blog!  I’m not even married, and I already see Becky’s brilliance!

Nuh- uhhhh!

I love this post!!!! It’s funny...and smart, in the intelligent kind of way. I’ll be honest, I always wondered why polygamy used to be okay and now it’s not.  I would love to hear more on this…

Did he ‘explain’ why the pope is the reason though?  Sounds like a cop-out answer to me.  The only scriptural justification I can find relies on much of pauls writings.  How he wishes we would be single and devote our selves to God, but that for some it is better to be married then to burn with lust.  Later in Titus and Timothy when it talks about the qualifications for leadership as being a husband of one wife.  Then you find general encouragement to leadership, to excellence as a Christian.  It isn’t exactly explicit that christians perhaps should not have just a single wife, but I’m afraid I wouldn’t have enough time to sit and listen to additional persons each day.  I barely get enough time to spend with my wife and one son now.  Hrms.....

Let’s see, one husband to mow the lawn, another to service the car. One to clean and one to cook. One who looks lovely in a suit and can take me out dancing, one who’s all cute and scruffy and outdoorsy and one who’ll share a large popcorn and a box of Kleenex with me at a chick flick. One to fix things around the house, and another to earn a paycheck to keep me in the lifestyle to which I’m very willing to become accustomed.

Yeah, I think this will work out…

I concur. Best post ever.

You inspire me to be a wittier writer...if only there was talent behind the inspiration.

Good stuff.

Wow… that’s pretty sick.  Joke or not, I’d be worried, if I were you, that your wife seems so flippant to the idea of other women having sex with you.

Besides, I’m not sure the Old Testament says it was perfectly okay for polygamy.  Just because righteous people did it didn’t make it right.  If you really think about it, all polygamy caused was problems.

Hysterical. And brilliant.

That Becky is a keeper.

(Oh, and if she figures out a way to make this work, be sure to let us know. I mean, you’d tell us if you got married again, wouldn’t you?)

Was she listening to “Sister Christian”?  Just curious . . .

As to polygamy, she does seem to have a point.  Our old preacher talked about this (conveniently just before a planned move to another job) and brought up a few interesting points.  One thing he said, in reference to the allowance of polygamy in the OT, was that many people simply say that God winked at this - in other words, it was not His plan, but he allowed it in the same way he allowed Israel to have a king.  The cases of polygamy given in the OT all seem to be troubled marriages, full of fighting and jealously.

Another point he brought up is that the Hebrew word for “divorce” is gender specific, meaning a man putting away a woman.  Cach, you speak Hebrew - is this correct?

Along those lines, then, the definition for “adultery” becomes different than what we recognize.  Adultery is no longer simply the sexual union of an unmarried couple but more specifically is sex between a man and a married woman, thus shaming the bond between her and her husband.  In this light, polygamy is not in any way adulterous. (NOTE: THESE ARE NOT NECESSARILY THE OPINIONS OF EUPHRONY.  I’ve gotten into enough trouble for innocent enough gender-related remarks.)

As to “The Pope” being the answer: I’ve heard people lay it at the teachings of St. Augustine.  As a youth he was rich and philandering.  When he became a Christian he went from one extreme (sexual debauchery) to another (sex only for procreation).  I don’t know, just what I’ve heard.

Cachinnator, Anne, Emily, Jen thank you. This post would like to thank the academy for bestowing such a prestigious award upon it.

Adam, she will laugh.  She will admire us both for noticing her plight and proposing a solution.  And then she’ll get a strange hankerin’ for some Night Ranger.

Rev Jeff, uh huh.

Katherine, making out with one’s nannies and maids is, in my state, illegal I’m pretty sure, but I’ll check on that.

Veretax, you’re an adult.  Step away from the video games and talk to your wife.

Nancy, it doesn’t work that way.  Ever.  Not in MY bible.  What heathen version are you readin’?

Sarah, there’s always one.  Congratulations.  Today, you’re it.

A little seriousness amid the snickers.

I’ve always thought that the model for one man and one woman for a lifetime came from two places. First Adam was given Eve. He wasn’t given Eves. God said that Adam didn’t have a helper. He didn’t say helpers.

Also Jesus, the bridegroom, is coming for His church, not churches. He’s only got one bride.

Here’s how The Family Manifesto states it:
(see http://www.familylife.com)

We believe God, not man, created marriage. We believe marriage was the first institution designed by God. We believe the Bible teaches that the covenant of marriage is sacred and life long. The Bible makes it clear that marriage is a legally binding public declaration of commitment and a private consummation between one man and one woman, never between the same sex. Therefore, we believe God gives a wife to a husband and a husband to a wife, and they are to receive one another as God’s unique and personal provision to help meet their mutual needs.

We believe God created marriage for the purpose of couples glorifying God as one flesh, parenting godly children, and enjoying sexual pleasure. As iron sharpens iron, we believe God uses marriage to sharpen a man and woman into the image of Jesus Christ. Just as the Trinity reflects equal worth with differing roles, we believe God created a man and a woman with equal worth but with differing roles and responsibilities in marriage.

Finally, we declare the marriage commitment must be upheld in our culture as that sacred institution of God in which men and women can experience the truest sense of spiritual, emotional, and physical intimacy, so that the two can become one. (Genesis 2:18-25; Ephesians 5:30-32; 1 Corinthians 7:3; Matthew 19:4-6; Mark 10:6-9, 12:25; Proverbs 27:17; Romans 1:26-27, 8:29; Hebrews 13:4; Matthew 22:30; Deuteronomy 24:5; Song of Solomon)

Shaun,

I own one console system.  That being an old Atari 2600.  Truth be told, i get home from work around 530 most nights (9 hour days usually).  then after dinner its almost 7 already where I am looking to give my son a bath and put him to bed. So its usually 8 or 830 by the time I’ve stepped away from that.  By then… pfew.... I’m zonked usually.  I usually hit the hay at 11 or 1130… Somehow that three hours just never seems like enough time.  Maybe my perception of time has altered since I graduated College and began working in the real world.  Who knows.  I do know that I cherish every moment I do get with my family.  So in the end I’m lucky if I find 1 day a week to spend any time ‘playing electronic games’ whether they be PC or console.  IN fact the ole 2600 hasn’t been gotten out in over a month at least.  Thanks for the advice though.

I hear ya, Veretax.  Hang in there.

You’re completely wrong about men and women’s libidos never matching up. Well, maybe not completely wrong… it’s just that sometimes it’s the man who’s lacking.  Sad, but true.

Does Becky have a blog? I’m developing an affection for her.

But doesn’t she realize, having all those women around doesn’t mean there’s more time to sleep in and hang out. Because, polygamy infers those women would want to do the same. They’d want to make out with you too. She’d have to share that as well as the kids, the cooking and the chores.

Unfortunately, I’ve seen The Bachelor, and it doesn’t seem like that is the answer.

Or, maybe, the answer is that the first wife gets to help select the houseful of other wives…

I am on board with Amy.

First wife picks secondary, tertiary, etc. wives and assigns responsibilities (none of which, I will say, permit Wife(2) and/or Wife(3) from “Business Time” responsibilities).

Business Time and spreadsheet making are still the sole responsibility of Wife(1).

Because there are some things a girl just can’t let go of.

I think one woman is enough to deal with. The stress that comes in a relationship, especially te realization that “I am now responsible for someone else,” when I don’t even own a plant is tough. Realizing you are responsible for even more (ie kids even) is huge. I couldn’t even imagine the amount of jealous it would cause, the animosity that would be created, and frankly I love Jenn so much I would never want her to think “she isn’t enough.”

I never suggested or assumed that the other wives would want to make out with me.  Nay.  I am a one woman maker outer.  Yet you all seem to be assuming that A)Becky wants other women to make out with me and B)Other women want to make out with me.

Neither, I believe, is true.  But it’s my wife’s fantasy so maybe I should check with her.  I think she just wants these women around to lighten the load and hang out with.  I don’t think making out with me is on their job description.  Like I said, let me check on that.

Shaun, if you had cable you would know that HBO does a show (Big Love) that deals with this issue.  My question is why would the husband want to have the head ache of having more then one wife.  Just what a husband needs three or four wives trying to change him into their so called perfect husband.

Thomas

Shaun: big picture that you probably already see- you have someone that is cool enough to somewhat jokingly play the devil’s advocate on an interesting issue like polygamy. that is awesome.
W. Mark Whitlock:
The family manifesto take: “As iron sharpens iron, we believe God uses marriage to sharpen a man and woman into the image of Jesus Christ.”
I just thought that was a really awesome way of wording it. Agreed.

Great post bro

Shaun,
I SEE and APPRECIATE the HUMOR you have beautifully displayed here.  I am getting married in a few months and I always joke with my intended that I am all the woman he could HANDLE. 

And to my fellow Shaun- Groves -Blog -Readers I think Becky’s whole view was to have other “wives, concubines ,___________(place your term here)” do the housework, laundry, driving, so that she would be able to have mroe time to make-out.

Praise God that through our difficulties finding time for the special someones in our lives, we learn patience and understanding, i think that is what He had in mind.

I’ve had the same thoughts myself.  My husband always says that one wife is like having a broken arm.  Why would any man want two?

Right.  Becky doesn’t want other wives.  Becky wants slaves.

"Furthermore, she argued, women and men have biologically mismatched sex drives. It’s as if God made men for multiple wives.”

That sounds pretty much like you’re talking about other women sleeping with you.

BTW… about being the only one today.  Was that a dig?  I couldn’t tell.  I obviously take everything at face value and have no skill of reading between lines or seeing humor in irreverent conversation.  None.. at all.

I love to see people get judgmental when they feel like someone was being judgmental at them when they were being judgmental in the first place.

BTW that’s just an observation and I’m in no way judging anyone.....

I see the humor and think it’s hilarious!  Only problem with Father Abraham’s polygamy… that’s what’s gotten us all the trouble in the Middle East…
And as for me, if she’s really advocating polygamy (and not servants) I’d have an awful hard time sharing my man with another woman!  No thank you!

haha dang though for a woman to say yay to polygamy, she must have been really going through a lot.

i think judging by what you said
“Then, she said, she and I could sleep in and spend our days just hanging out together.  And, because the workload would be shared by all the wives, she would have plenty of energy left over for making out with me.”

she’s gunna be the only one making out with you and shell be the head/main wife.

thnx for such an interesting post!

How come, if I want more than one woman in the house to do all that “domestic” stuff, I have to spend that extra free time making out with my husband?  What if I want to just lay around all by myself and sip tea, etc? 

Beth

I love this idea.  Maybe what we really want is for our friends to come over and do all our housework for us so we can hang out with them while our house is being cleaned.  That way, we get our emotional needs met, you know the ones husbands are always claiming that men can’t fully meet (thus the noble recommendations of girls’ night out from aforementioned husbands).  Maybe soft rock stars are emotionally equivalent to a great girlfriend?  Not sure on that.  I digress.  Our friends would not want to make out with our husbands, we hope, so that would remove that threat.  If my husband could figure out that situation, I would totally make out with him.  Adult conversation and a clean house with dinner on the table?  A girl an dream.  But, Beth, I’m with you at least for a little while.  Maybe I could just read a book first?

I think part of the mismatched sex drives that Becky was talking about comes from all of the work that women have to do. I think that all these other wives, or “slaves” as Amy so delicately put it, would afford Becky a great deal more energy with which she could make out with her husband more often. Other women being involved in that making out process would likely lead to much jealousy. But yeah, mass amounts of women slaves who are on good terms with the lady of the house would leave lots of time for satisfying a husband’s needs.

Also, Shaun, your posts have made the highlight real of so many days for me. Thank you!

this is a much better solution than the one I’ve wondered about while wandering about my house in a daze.... my idea (spoken out loud like twice to my husband) is that I need a wife.  For the housework and stuff.

At least Becky’s idea is actually locatable in the Bible

Really, she could have the housework done for her and could relax and have all the alone time she wanted on every day except for Wednesday.  Because, remember, Wednesdays are BUSINESS days!

I laughed so many times reading both this post and the comments.  Agreeing with Jeana that I really like your wife. And you remembered the way she felt during those early childhood years. Can’t help but admit that I too wished there was someone else my family (pick a member, any time of the day) could go to when they need something.  Just flat out tired!  And the husband always gets the short end at the finish of the day.  Now that kids are in school, I’ve learned to take my time mid-day so I have energy in the evening.  Not sure what I’d do if I homeschooled though.

I said in a staff meeting not too long ago that I needed a wife.  Someone to help me clean, do laundry, keep me on schedule, and take care of all the stuff.  The men in the room were speechless.  I went on, I am not interested in “anything else” that a wife does, I just need some help so I won’t be so tired.  Men still speechless… women nodding approvingly so I changed it to, I need a Tonto...a faithful comapanion like the Lone Ranger had.  Love this post.  Oh, I work at a church.

Shaun, have you and Becky ever seriously considered cohousing or commune life?

It’s something I’ve always kind of assumed you’d end up doing eventually and this post makes me think you may be getting close. With your family’s focus on community, living simply, eating and using energy responsibly and homeschooling, it seems like a lifestyle that would really suit you.

Oddly, yes, Nancy (Tyler).  Becky and I and Brian and Amy talked about it for a short while.  It was back when we lived in the big house.  Becky and I were wondering if we should sell it or have Brian’s family move in with us.  You see, that way we would get to keep our awesome big house AND have all the benefits of communal living too.  Becky still wishes we’d done that.

Maybe some day.

Of course, then I think I WOULD have to follow Phish around the country in a primary colored school bus and rename my kids Feather, Mountain and Leaping Bear.

Ha!

I will say, having lived in a Kenyan village where polygamy was widely practiced, the main benefits of the arrangement seemed to be for the men.  The women were still all expected to do a ton of work, and there were lots of problems with jealousy, socially enforced inferiority complexes of the children of the 2nd-5th mothers, etc.  It wasn’t so much a situation of 2 women doing half as much work as it was 2 women doing at least the same amount of work because there are twice as many children, twice as much garden, and twice as much livestock in the front yard, not to mention twice as many ancestors to worry about appeasing.  But maybe it would be easier with the conveniences of modern life. 

Stupendous.

Absolutely.

I like the way her mind works. ha ha

I think this is amusing because it has the painful truth mixed into it. And theology?  Although I’m pretty sure you didn’t intend this to be a theological discussion, but nonetheless expected some response of that nature.

Bless yer heart.

Really, besides the whole sex with multiple wives issue, I could totally get on board with it. HA!!!

Holy mackerel, am I late to this post.  But since only one other person (Mark Warnock?) actually addressed the main question, I will too.  I think that statement is a good synopsis, but I would add to the “Adam and Eves” implicit point what Jesus had to say explicitly about divorce: “From the beginning it was not so.” (Matthew 19:8) Not to mention the host of instances in the Old Testament in which polygamy was a source of inter- and intra-family strife, ranging from merciless teasing to murder.

I trying really hard but I can’t relate. Hubs does a chore or two for me almost every day and then there’s lots of making out. I think he realized that the chores are worth saving my energy for make out sessions. He did marry a spring chicken so maybe everything will change when I hit my 30’s.
It’s cool that your wife is so confident in you to joke around like that.

Jesus did away with polygamy in Luke 16:28 when he said, “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery. ”

The only way the above verse is true is if the following are true
a) Gender specific divorce is kaput, done away with. 
- not only that, but -
b) God doesn’t recognize divorce, period.  The two people who are “divorced” according to human or OT law are really still married in God’s eyes.
- and -
c) Polygamy is also outlawed.  A man can’t have two wives at the same time anymore, and (as was typical in the OT) a woman couldn’t have two husbands at the same time.

If either (a), (b) or (c) above is untrue, then a male in Jesus day was not committing adultery against his wife by marrying another women after obtaining he or she obtained a divorce from their “previous” marriage.

Jesus made it clear that he wasn’t satisfied with the status quo of the OT.  He was giving people new hearts, not making allowances for hard hearts.  No longer would he accept an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.  He expected his followers to love their enemies.  No longer would he accept divorce and remarriage or polygamy.  He expected his followers (if they married) to take their spouse, until death do they part.  That was after all the original plan when God invented marriage. (Genesis and Luke reference).

Neither “the” pope nor Augustine invented this interpretation of Scripture.  It was handed down from the apostles, as Justin Martyr (and not Pope Pius I nor Pope Anicetus) wrote around 150 AD, explaining the belief of Christians to the Emperor Antoninus Pius, “Concerning chastity, He uttered such sentiments as these: “Whosoever looketh upon a woman to lust after her, hath committed adultery with her already in his heart before God.” And, “If thy right eye offend thee, cut it out; for it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of heaven with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into everlasting fire.” And, “Whosoever shall marry her that is divorced from another husband, committeth adultery.” And, “There are some who have been made eunuchs of men, and some who were born eunuchs, and some who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake; but all cannot receive this saying.” So that all who, by human law, are twice married, are in the eye of our Master sinners, and those who look upon a woman to lust after her. For not only he who in act commits adultery is rejected by Him, but also he who desires to commit adultery: since not only our works, but also our thoughts, are open before God.”

Of course, rejecting polygamy/divorce and remarriage is hard for people to accept.  The disciples had a tough time when they first heard it, too (they also had to get used to the end of male controlled divorces).  I’ll end with my own paraphrase of Matthew 19: 10-12

Disciples: “Whoa, dude. Hold on! If marriage is like that, then men shouldn’t marry.”

Jesus: “Yes, some will figuratively have their weenies cut off and be forced into sexless existences for the rest of their lives in order to bring about the rule of God on earth.”

The kingdom of heaven is here.  Let’s start living like it’s a reality, not a dream.

I loved this post...it’s one of your best.  But the comments...they are priceless.

well, i think you look no further than Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5, Mark 10:7-9, Ephesians 5:31. “...the two shall become one flesh.” These verses don’t make allowance for marriage beyond one man and one woman… UNLESS you go and get all technical and say now that the two have become ONE flesh, then that one flesh that was once TWO may now unite with another one and still be covered by those verses, which would look pretty much like AT&T gobbling up wireless phone companies one by one…

Becky....listening to good ole’ 80’s music. A girl after my own heart. (Allison told me to ck. out your blog. Met Becky in Co-op this yr.)

I think such a woman is a mythological creature and if she doth exist monuments should be erected in her honor

Oh, man. There’s a joke in response to this sentence that pretty much writes itself.

There’s one wrinkle that Becky hasn’t considered - wouldn’t more wives just equal more kids, and therefore, more work to do? It seems like it’d work out to be the same amount of tasks on the to-do list for each wife, possibly even a lot more than contemporary wives have to deal with, since the menfolk probably weren’t culturally encouraged to involve themselves in domestic affairs back then, and what with the lack of birth control and all.

In any event, one wife is more than enough of a handful for me. I like having one. There’s no way in Hades I’d ever want two.

There’s some comment gold in these here hills.

Lord have mercy.

And thanks, Anne, for the Business Time reference. Now all I can think about are business socks and t-shirts that say Team Building Exercise ‘99.

Love y’all.

Beyond absurd. Being that you were away singing at a youth camp implies that you have a young audience. Please consider that.
Points: #1) “Making Out” Ridiculous cover up for sex #2) If you’re going to be so “discrete” with making out why not come up with something “cute” for polygamy. And polygamy ALWAYS implies multiple sexual partners. Whether you SUPPOSEDLY never considered that, which seems hard- especially with you wanting to have sex all the time. Sorry to not use your benign “making out” terms. Nothing about this post is benign. Sad. Sad. Sad. By the way… don’t remember the name of the person who commented- AMEN! A lot of times it’s the man lacking the libido.

I think it is also interesting to note one of Paul’s qualifications to be an elder… to be the “husband of one wife.” So, it could be inferred that if you have more than one wife, you’re good to go, you just can’t be an elder. 

I’m not for polygamy (can’t imagine all of the headaches), but I’ve always noted that there is nothing expressly in scripture that forbids it.  I always find it interesting that people who align themselves more to the right, are against things like polygamy, yet embrace gay marriage.  Seems a bit odd to me.

I can’t believe anyone actually used this post as a forum to discuss/debate polygamy.

Cachinnator, duct tape your head together before reading the comments here.  Just a precaution. I care.

No comment or discussion on this here blog surprises me anymore.  I’ve been here too long.  Thankfully I know Shaun and Becky well enough to know exactly how to read this post.  1/2 a grain of salt and no more.

Beth

No doubt the post is 1/2 a grain of salt, mainly because of where we live in the world.  This is in fact a HUGE issue in other parts of the world.  If a Muslim with 5 wives and 16 children were to convert to Christianity, would he be forced to divorce 4 of his wives and abandon them?

Oh my, I am totally late on this, but I was reading through your stuff because I have been out of town for a few days.  This is hysterical!!!  So true, and I can just see Becky saying it in her pajamas, and it just might have to be my new saying to Jason for fun when he comes home off of the road.  Thanks for making me laugh!  Hope you guys are doing good!

"I can’t believe anyone actually used this post as a forum to discuss/debate polygamy.”

I don’t get this statement.  Maybe somebody can help me out.  I thought one of the primary purposes of blogs in general (and this one in particular) is to provoke thoughtful discussion and the charitable exchange of ideas.  If this can be combined with humor, that’s even better.  Is there something about this particular post that makes it a humor only post?  What clues should one pick up on that tells one this is the case?

One of the reasons that I read this blog is that it often challenges me, makes me a little (or more than a little) uncomfortable and makes me think a little harder about things and read up on stuff.  It happens with poverty regularly.  It’s happened with torture.  Now it happened with polygamy.  I’m pretty sure that the intent was there in the first two cases to cause people to think and ask questions.  Why was it not there this time and/or why is it inappropriate to use this particular thread as a forum to exchange ideas on the topic of polygamy?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can offer insight on this.

MB

I was kind of surprised that one wouldn’t expect some sort of polygamy discussion to start as well as a result of such a post.  sigh, in fact that comment made me feel offended on behalf of everyone who did talk about it.

Funny though the intent may have been you can’t bring up such a hot button topic (especially right now!) and just expect a bunch of giggles.

A year ago I would have found this extremely funny. Now going through the aftermath of my husband’s 6 year affair it is not funny in the least.

"Any may who desires two wives deserves them.”

I’m in a plural marriage. No, really. And I find that it does make sense for us. I wouldn’t go back to monogamy… I like the company, the help with the kids, the extra time on my own… It’s a sweet deal, as far as I’m concerned.