Shlog Section-f

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...that’s what two conservative Episcopal churches in the Washington, DC suburbs had to decide this weekend--stay with the Episcopal Church in the US, with its more liberal beliefs, including allowing gay bishops, or switch allegiance to a branch of the Anglican church based in Nigeria. They both chose to leave.  Did they do the right thing or should they have stayed with the Episcopal Church and fought for their beliefs?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/18/AR2006121800331.html

On a more personal scale, how do you know when you should stay with your own local church when you have differences with it and how do you know when it’s time to find a new church?

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Wow, I hadn’t heard about this, Nancy.  Thanks for the linkage.

I’m thinking.  I’m thinking.

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I have friends in both churches.  It’s been a BIG deal in the local news.  Nice to have something other than politics and murders topping the DC news headlines.

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I heard this on the news today too.  I applaud their decision as difficult as it was for them I’m sure.  I know that people will focus on what they see as the central issue; gay bishops.  I think that’s only a symptom if you will.  The real problem is sin.  Of course no church body is sinless as we’re all made up of humanbeings, but I am hoping that their departure is because of a long-thought-out decision, backup up by solid Biblical study, prayer and fasting.  That they are spurred on by the knowledge and faith that they are doing everything they possibly can to protect their flocks from the deceiver and author of lies.  I hope that it was not a decision based on wanting to exclude a particular type of person, but rather to hold fast to Biblical truth no matter the cost.

We have had to make the decision to leave a church before for reasons other than moving to a new area.  It was the hardest thing we ever had to do.  We loved that body and were heavily invested there in many ministries.  My husband maintained the buildings, built the nursery and made many improvements to the attached parsonage.  I taught Sunday School, led the ladies ministry team and vacation Bible school, etc. 

Within six months of calling a new pastor (after being without one for three years), he had completely changed the direction of the church.  He wanted all members to sign “covenants” whereby we would never question his authority, decisions or teachings.  He made notebooks for all the members to keep his sermon notes in; telling us that is where we should turn in times of struggle, questions, etc.  He never wanted us to search the scripture on our own; just rely on him.  When it was discovered that he was buying sermons off the internet and changing the authors’ name to that of his own (he should’ve picked someone a little less famous than Rick Warren!), he said that once he purchased them, he could do as he pleased.  He made no apologies and when caught in several lies, he denied them all and said HE was the head of that church and would not be questioned about anything he said or did. 

Needless to say, we left; along with about 80% of the membership.  The deacon body was split over how to handle the situation so he couldn’t be terminated under the then current constitution.  It was a very difficult time for us and we were deeply hurt.  It took us a long time to heal and be able to move on to look for another congregation.  We home-churched for about a year with other families from that congregation.  It was a good year of growth, study and healing and I really learned how to research and understand WHY I believe what I do and where it comes from in scripture.  I’m still learning so much of that and hope to be doing so for the rest of my life.  God grows us through the tough times to be sure.

Beth

Nancy Tyler - 18 December 2006 07:28 PM

On a more personal scale, how do you know when you should stay with your own local church when you have differences with it and how do you know when it’s time to find a new church?

...how about when the pastor of the church you’re visiting tells everyone to stop leaving the churches in other communities to come to his?

Made it just the little bit more painful to stay put.

Last year, my parents left their church due to the fact that the music director was openly gay.  They decided to leave the United Methodist Church while they were at it, and joined a Wesleyan Church (which is more conservative than the UMC).  I’m still a member of the UMC, but I’m definitely going to consider the Wesleyan Church after I graduate and move somewhere else, although it’s mainly due to their stance (or lack of one) on the abortion issue, and the fact that the United Methodist Women supported the pro choice “March for Women’s Lives” a few years back.

I feel like if you’re at a church where you try and make it work and try to change things, but nothing ever changes, then it’s best to leave.  My parents were members of the church for eight years before deciding to leave.  And they’re not the only ones who left.  Our former pastor went to be a district bishop or whatever it’s called up in the Winchester area, and he decided to take the position because of the situation at our church.

Don’t get me wrong - the music director is very talented and a really nice guy - but he lives in a sinful way that doesn’t align with what the Bible says… or the Methodist doctrine.  How can someone in leadership of the church be living in sin?  It’s not right.  And I can understand why my parents and other people left.

I’m glad those two churches left the Episcopal Church.  I applaud their action.  I was just surprised that they were two churches in one of the more liberal parts of the state.

Devil’s advocate here…

Is there a responsibility at all on our part to stay put as agents of change in communities of faith that we strongly believe are off base on core issues that matter to Christ?  If we leave are we removing our truthful influence when it’s most needed?

I believe it is very important to stay, up to a point.  When it becomes very apparent that the leadership is going to continue down the distructive path with no desire to change or even recognize that it’s necessary, then it’s time to go.  In our situation, several members approached this pastor individually, according to scripture.  My husband and I met with him for over an hour one day, and he was quite comfortable telling us both lies that he knew were lies.  He just let them roll off his tongue without even a hint of struggle.  I’d caught him in a couple of other very blatent lies because I did his taxes.  Things he told the pastor search committee and the church during the interview process that turned out later to be false.  He was asked by the membership to resign (not collectively by the deacons though) and he refused stating that he was the one in charge there was nothing we could do unless the deacons all acted together.  There were 4 deacons at the time and 2 left and the other two stayed.  1 more left within weeks when he too realized what this man really was.  He had no desire to change because I honestly think he knew he’d not get a job elsewhere as a pastor, had no other skills to get a job and was being paid by the EBC at the time.  Way better than the situation he’d come from and he knew that he wasn’t getting any good references.  It was very sad and hard to leave, but for our spiritual protection and for that of our children, we had no other choice.

Beth

If it’s your home (a church you’ve been with for awhile) church that is suddenly changing, then you may want to stay for awhile.  I believe you can speak the truth in love to the leadership and pray and see if anything happens. 

I think it’s a case by case basis.  It all depends on how big the issues are to you, how it’s being practically played out in the church, and what you sense the Holy Spirit is asking you to do.

I left a church because of a building program on the surface, but at its heart the issue was really a different ministry philosophy.  I had been attending for just a year, and struggled to really fit into the church, despite my best efforts.  I realized, too, that I was not fully on board with the building project.  Since that was pretty much consuming the church, I left.  I now attend a church that doesn’t have a building, and is much more closely aligned with my own philosophy of ministry.  I still think the previous church is a great church and full of people who really love God, but it just wasn’t the right place for me.  And sometimes being able to recognize that you need to make a change is ok.  There is a tendency to believe that sticking with one church forever is the right way, but people and circumstances change.  I have seen serious strife in churches because people were unwilling to acknowledge that they needed to make a church switch and so instead they stirred up the waters in their situation in order to make it more bearable for them to leave.  Don’t misunderstand, I do believe it’s important to be committed and involved with a local body, but sometimes yes, you have to make a change.  And when you do, you should do it with love and grace. 

You don’t have to be involved in the church with different philosophies or doctrine to effect change.  You can still love the people you knew there and stay in relationship with them, and pray for them.