So I’d like to know what everyone thinks on this. Do you have a problem with female pastors? What does the Bible say about it? What would you do if your church switched from a male pastor to a female pastor? Do you think women are more fit for the roles as pastors since they are stepping up? Do you think women should have any say what-so-ever in teaching doctrine?
I’ve done a bit of study on this very topic because our church is in the process of rewriting it’s constitution. In all the study I’ve done, I haven’t been able to find one verse of scripture that supports women as pastors. The Bible clearly teaches that women are not to have authority over men; especially in spiritual matters. For a church to have a woman as a lead pastor (or in ANY pastoral position) is unbiblical as far as I can tell. I’m no expert mind you, but I’ve never seen anything to the contrary. I know there are some incredibly gifted women teachers out there and they have been gifted by God as such. They shouldn’t be teaching men however. Beth Moore is one of my favorites and she teaches women only. She’s been asked many times to have a seminar or teach a couples class and she refuses, because she won’t place herself in a position of authority over a man.
As a pastor, that individual has authority over their congregation. They are held accountable for it by God and I don’t see how someone can act outside of scripture’s teaching on this and be in authority over me. I definitely wouldn’t have any woman sitting in authority over my husband.
Women can and do certainly serve in churches all over the place. We have a wonderful woman who serves as our Children’s Ministry Director. She is part of our church staff, but does NOT have authority over men and is NOT part of the PASTORAL staff. Three men make up our pastoral staff with one lead pastor. We have others on staff who are not pastors.
I can get you some detailed info on this if you’re interested.
our junior high pastor is a woman, but she doesnt try to have authority over men. a few of the volunteers for the guy small groups in junior high have to sort of… i guess report is the best word… report to her. but its nothing like she tells/teaches them what to do. her job focuses on the junior highers of our youth group.
im not sure what i feel about women in senior pastor rolls or something like that. i guess i dont know that i would like that, especially since i love our senior pastor and he’s a guy! lol. but… i havent really given it too much thought…
We first have to realize that the term “pastor” doesn’t have an exact parallel in scripture. In other words, the church then wasn’t organized in the same way the church now is. So what position then is most like the position of pastor today?
Women did “prophecy” in scripture. Stephen had four daughters who prophecied. Paul writes to the church in Corinth that women ought to keep their head covered WHEN they prophecy. ANd this word prophecy mean to “forth tell.” To preach.
The church then was more open-source, I guess is one way to put it. A meeting would have two or three people preaching/prophecying. Paul warns again more than that number, saying it would be too disorganized. And people could speak in tongues as well, a sort of teaching when interpreted - (and it always was supposed to be interpreted or the tongue speaker was to keep quiet.)
So there was no one guy doing all the talking/preaching. There was a pastor type (Timothy in Ephesus, Peter in Jerusalem) whose job it was to oversee all this activity and speak against any heresy that got spoken. That’s my understanding so far anyway.
So, my question then is still when we some people say women can’t pastor, what is it specifically they’re saying women can’t do? Interpret scripture publicly, speak to a crowd of Christians in a church? If that’s what Paul meant then he contradicted himself by allowing women to speak in his churches. Is it that women can’t be any kind of church leader? Well, there were deaconesses so I don’t think we can argue that either. So, what is it exactly and why?
Just as a side note my pastor’s really not a woman and I already have an opinion on this I just thought it’d be good to talk about. Anyway, here’s my two cents worth on it. I have no problem with women pastors. I feel that men do a better job because you guys seem to be more emotionally stable(key words seem to be). I’d have to get used to having a woman pastor but I wouldn’t deny her the opportunity to be used in the church. After all I am still planning on being a youth minister so I’d be contradictory for me to say “Oh women can’t be pastors but can be youth ministers”.
And it’s funny you mentioned speaking in tongues. My church did a service on speaking in tongues last Sunday and in the Southern Baptist Convention it’s apparently outlawed in your private prayer time to speak in tongues. I’m gonna have to get out of the Southern Baptist Denomination if they start saying we can’t do things like that in our private prayer time. I mean really their starting to sound more like dictators than just...whatever you’d call people over a denomination… spiritual leaders...I guess? I have no problem with the 5 fundamentals of the Christian faith or a problem with making the Bible homebase. But when a denomination begins asking their churches to police people in their PRIVATE prayer time. Don’t know there sparky you’re sounding a little communist to me.
I’m okay with women pastors. I just wrote my English paper on John Wesley, and he allowed it, way back in the 1700s (then the Methodists didn’t allow it after Wesley died in 1791).
Anyway, Wesley’s point was that he recognized some women could get the “extraordinary call,” and how could he get in the way of God calling women to preach?
The church I grew up in, now has an associate pastor who’s a woman. When I’ve been up to visit (my brother and sister-in-law go there… they got married there too), sometimes Rocky will preach instead of Rob, the main pastor.
I feel it’s a complicated issue. I think if your chuch is organized around a senior pastor, that should probably be a man. The authority figure should be a man. I think elders are supposed to be men. I even think that perhaps when it comes to teaching theology to both genders, that should be a man. But it’s been a long time since I’ve thought about this, so I’d have to go back and research it and try to remember why I think those things.
Aims, I heard about that with the Southern Baptists. I was really surprised. It seems quite a bit of control they are taking there.
I think if your chuch is organized around a senior pastor, that should probably be a man. The authority figure should be a man. I think elders are supposed to be men. I even think that perhaps when it comes to teaching theology to both genders, that should be a man.
Not saying I disagree but why do you think this? Wondering if that’s a good place to start for all of us: Not so much what do we think by why do we think it.
When I had to wade through all this - back when I was teaching at IKON and we went through Paul’s letter to Corinth - I realized how little of what I thought on this issue actually stemmed from scripture and was surprised at how much scripture actually cast doubt on what I’d always believed.
1Timothy 2
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
One reason would be a matter of seniority, Adam came before Eve. We also see that Eve was deceived while Adam though still wrong, did so out of love for Eve.
Adam is a type of Christ and Eve is a type of the Church.
A Pastor is charged with shepherding his flock or the Church.
John 10
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
How do we reconcile this passage pointed out by Bapster with others, like the ones I mentioned in Acts and 1Corinthians, in which women are speaking, are leading and do seem to be “in charge” of men?
I wonder how many people take in account of the time period in which the new testament was written. I also wonder how many people take into consideration of were the letters was being sent to. The letter was being sent to Timothy who was living in Ephesus. It is believed that during this period that there were women who were domineering and giving false teachings. Also, we also need to remember that the Apostle Paul was a Pharisee before coming to know Christ. With the Apostle Paul receiving a strict legalistic teaching to become a Pharisee, this could have effected his teaching about women and their places in the church. This could be the explanation of why the Apostle Paul said “I do not permit…..”* at the beginning of his discourse of women and teaching in the letter to Timothy.
This is just my opinion. I am not a Biblical scholar. I am very very far from that. When I was in college, my history professor constantly said “remember who the audience is and when and were they lived when reading something from the past.” I know that when I study scripture I have a tendency not to take that into account and I apply my beliefs and understanding to what I am reading.
*1 Timothy 2 (New International Version) 1 Timothy 2
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But womenwill be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
The Office of Pastor is a New Testament Office and in Eph 4:11 we find the only use of the word. “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers.”
1 Peter 5:1-4 Peter is speaking to the elders. (Vs 2 Feed the flock)(Vs 3 ensamples to the flock)
We know that the Chief Shepherd in Vs 4 is Jesus Christ, a pastor is the under-shepherd, one who acts as a shepherd in caring for and feeding the sheep.
1 Timothy 3 King James (un-copy righted translation
1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Note in the above scripture, some men are not qualified for pastoring.
In Acts is there any indication that Philips four daughters had any public ministry? (Shaun; did you mean Philip instead of Stephen?)
Huldah (Old Testament) the prophetess gave the word of the Lord to Josiah in 2Kings 22 so certainly was able to interpret scripture but also seemed to take a lesser role.
We also see in Acts 1 that men and women both took part in a prayer meeting.
Women and men are able to do the different things mentioned. The difference is a Pastor is given specific responsibilities and must meet the given conditions and requirements.
I did mean Philip’s daughters, yes. Sorry about that.
So, Bapster, what you’re saying is the head honcho can’t be a woman. But that’s the only thing a woman can’t be. Being ultimately “in charge” makes a person the “pastor” or “bishop” - is that your interpretation of it?
Then a woman could be an associate pastor and preach on a Sunday morning to men and women?
Just trying to make sure I understand you clearly before I go and stir the pot again. (It’s my job you know)
Pot stirring is something you do very well my friend! Not sure where Baptister stands on this, but I would not have a woman in ANY position of authoritative leadership in my church. By that I mean as a pastor (in the ministerial sense), elder, bishop, etc. Certainly as a Bible study teacher (of other women, children, youth up to a certain age), children’s director, chior director, etc. I truly believe that God ordained MEN to be the spiritual head’s of our homes, countries and our churches.
The timing and audience of Paul’s letter to Ephesis is very important for the very reason that Thomas stated above. There were domineering women in the congregation that were teaching, preaching and laying out doctrine and theology and that is what Paul was warning against. Women are to submit to the authority of men (Godly men), just as believers are to submit to the authority of Christ. Men are to love their wives as Christ loves the church. If you go back to the original greek translation of this part of scripture, the pronouns used in EVERY instance are masculine and mean MEN. There is no way any woman could be the “husband of one wife”, which literally translated means “one woman man.”
This is a topic that will likely be debated until Christ’s return and possibly without much change of mind from either side. Thankfully it’s not a topic that our salvation is dependent upon.
Stir away Shaun, I haven’t had a good headache in weeks!
So, Bapster, what you’re saying is the head honcho can’t be a woman. But that’s the only thing a woman can’t be. Being ultimately “in charge” makes a person the “pastor” or “bishop” - is that your interpretation of it?
Then a woman could be an associate pastor and preach on a Sunday morning to men and women?
Not so much what I’m saying, but more of what I believe God has said. (I think we all can agree it’s a good thing I didn’t write any of the Bible ) I also believe God has ordained men to be the spiritual leaders. As far as being “in charge” I suppose that is accurate but I would rather say “responsible or accountable” I would not include associate pastor and preaching. Please keep in mind several men are not qualified either. In the Old Testament if you were not a Levite (or your name was Melchizedek) you could not be a Priest.
Now somewhat of a side note or a little Bapster-ology.
I have a theory that one of the reasons that those who are not qualified step up and pastor or preach, is because we have far too many men who are quaified and God called, that are not doing what they are supposed to and shirking their responsibilities. This is not only in the area of Pastor, but also as Fathers and Husbands.
I know I’m late to the party, but I wanted to comment briefly.
I personally take a complimentarian view of gender roles rather than egalitarian. Thus, I don’t think a pastor (i prefer the term elder) should be a she. My reasons for holding this belief have already been stated by other users, so I won’t rehash them here.
Anyway, my main reason for writing was to correct what was said earlier about Southern Baptists and private prayer languages. The resolution that was passed has nothing to do with individual church members. They can practice whatever they want, as the Denomination doesn’t actually hold any authority over them. We Souther Baptists believe strongly in the autonomy of the local church (sometimes too strongly I fear). The resolution had to do with those who are candidates to be missionaries with the International Mission Board (an agency of the SBC). They were asked to neither practice nor teach on the validity of private prayer languages. Since IMB missionaries are supported by the convention, they want to make sure that they are supporting those that they agree with. While I don’t agree with the resolution, I understand the reasons for passing it. It should also be noted that due to overwhelming disagreement on the subject within the convention, the resolution has not been enacted and is going to be reviewed and re-voted on.
