Shlog Section-f

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Have you heard about the California lawmaker who wants to make it illegal for parents to spank their kids?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/20/ap/national/mainD8MOTCN00.shtml

How did your parents discipline you as a kid?  If you’re a parent now, what’s been the most effective way you’ve found to discipline your kids?

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More proof that CA has “lost it” once again.

My parents did apply the “hand of knowledge to the seat of injustice” when necessary.  Usually, when I did something wrong, all it took was the threat of a spanking to bring be back into line.  I was NEVER afraid of my parents and I NEVER felt abused or mistreated in any way.  I did however dread the “I’m disappointed in you” speech.  I hated that one as I would much rather have gotten a spanking and been done with it than have to sit and think about how I’d disappointed my parents.  They didn’t lay any guilt trips on me or anything.  I had a tremendous respect for them and what they taught me and to know that come up short in some way was harder than any spanking I could’ve ever gotten.

As the mother of 4 now, I can say that I’ve spanked by children when it was necessary.  None of them got a spanking very often and three of them are “too old” for that type of discipline now.  My 7 year old rarely does anything that warrants a harsh word, much less a spanking.  All of our children are Christians and when they err in some way, we talk about it and try to discover what Jesus would do and what He’d say about their err.  The older three lose privileges or allowance (harsh for the two teenagers!). 

The deeper issue on this whole CA thing for me though is not about me and how I choose to discipline my kids specifically.  The problem here is that those in the government think that it’s THEIR job to raise our kids and that the parents are not capable of doing this without government intervention.  While it is obviously wrong to abuse a child or to subdue them through fear of physical or emotional harm, spanking does neither of those.  If the government worked harder at actually protecting those who are truly abused rather than meddling in the lives of the vast majority of parents who are doing just fine, we’d be better off.

This is one of those laws that I’d have to break whenever necessary because it would be contrary to scripture not to do so.  I am accountable to a much higher authority than my government here on earth.  While I will certainly “render unto Caesar” what is his, I will not be bound by any law that is contrary to scripture.  It’s sorta the same thing as Shaun talked about with stealing music.  If the government decided that music loaded on the internet by anyone was unregulated and free, it wouldn’t make it right.

Sorry for rambling and I’m sure my thoughts are scattered and unorganized.  If CA worried more about protecting kids from the groups they actively harbor (MBLA, etc.) and sanction and less about the simple and correct discipline techniques of parents, we’d all be better off.

Beth

I remember getting spanked ONE time at about age 6.  My parents had company and my dad told me to do something and I told him no.  My dad swatted me on the rear, and I turned around and said, in my best smart-alecky tone, “Ha Ha.  Didn’t hurt.” He promptly picked me up, took me in my room and spanked me soundly.  I never needed to be spanked again, all it took was a “look” from my dad.  I can still remember it vividly to this day. 

Thinking back, my mom and dad spent alot of time “talking” to me about what I had done wrong and why it was wrong, then they made ME decide my punishment.  The guilt alone probably made me decide on a stiffer punishment than they would have dished out.  I would have rather had a whack than for my mom and/or dad to look at me with disapointment in their eyes and tell me that we need to have a talk. 

As a parent, I did spank, but I decided that it would only be if I felt the actions would be harmful to the children, and it was more of a pat that hurt their feelings, not their rearend.  I wanted them to associate harmful things with unpleasantness.  EX: If they ran out in the street, or the time when Justin was trying to put pennies in the electrical outlet, etc.  Other than that, we used time out, or restrictions from certain toys and/or playtime because I didn’t want my children to learn that hitting was a way to resolve conflict.

One time, though, I did spank Justin for an action that wouldn’t have harmed him.  He was about 5 or 6 years old and we were at Target and he wanted a toy.  I told him he hadn’t completed all of his chores on his chore chart, so he wasn’t going to be rewarded.  Begging & pleading went on throughout the store as I was trying to quickly pick up some things.  After I checked out (without a toy for Justin) we were in the parking lot, he was sitting in the cart and I was putting things in my trunk.  When I turned my back, he picked up a bag and threw it on the ground and something broke.  I calmly put the rest of the bags in the trunk, pushed him in the cart back up the store, took him out and took him directly to the restroom and spanked him.  He doesn’t remember that, but I’ll never forget it...I think because I went back on my word to myself.

Oh, California, you and your crazy laws…

While I don’t think I’d like to spank my kids when I’m a parent one day, I don’t think it should be made illegal… as long as the spanking is done reasonably and is explained to the child why what they did was wrong.

My dad spanked me for a while, but then stopped.  I’m not sure why.  But I wasn’t traumatized by it or anything.

Not saying I agree or disagree, (after all, I don’t have kids yet), and again, Beth, I’m not trying to pick on you, but where and how does Scripture command us to spank our children?

I was spanked as a kid, albeit rarely.  I also wasn’t warped by it, but I don’t think that’s an argument in favor of spanking.

As for CA banning spanking, no, I don’t agree necessarily.  But I don’t think it’s a gross injustice or abuse of power.  The government regulates all kinds of things that we collectively decide are bad for us.  They say how much lead can be in gasoline, how many impurities can be in our food, whether or not we can smoke around each other, and what kinds of emissions are allowed from our factories and cars.  If society decided that spanking was abusive or bad for us, it would absolutely be government’s role, as we define it, to regulate it.  Have we as a society decided that spanking is abuse?  I don’t think we have yet, but more people think that way than ever before.  This isn’t really so much a “right vs. wrong” issue as one of government doing what government does.  And let’s face it, more people in CA are more likely to be against spanking than here in TX for example.  If a law banning spanking is something that the people of CA vote for legally, then again, government is simply doing what government does.

my parents did spank us when we were little.  i cant remember getting spanked more than one time, but i know they did do it.  but only if we had been REALLY naughty.  otherwise, if we werent obeying, my dad would hold onto our ears. and that was more like us punishing ourselves because if we DIDNT come, it hurt like CRAZY.

personally, if/when i have kids, i will probably use spanking if they are ever just horrible.  but i think the ear-pulling will be far more effective; it was with us anyway! 

spanking as a form of discipline for doing wrong is not bad, i dont think.  spanking as a way to vent anger or just to do it IS wrong.  it all depends on the motive.  i know that my parents only spanked us because we had done wrong, and they wanted us to learn and to become better people.  that would be why i would use it, and why i think that spanking is ok, if in the right context.  however, its an extreme measure and there are other ways to teach children to behave too, especially when the act of disobedience is a minor one.

As someone who lives in California, I’d just like to jump in and say that though Cali might have some crazy laws, they also have some really great ones.  I was surprised upon moving here that there were quite a few that I appreciated. 

Having said that, I was spanked as a child.  It didn’t do me irreperable harm, but I also wasn’t under the age of 4.  This law is specifically for under the age of 4. 

I don’t know how I feel about such a law.  I guess it comes down to the age old debate of if it would save some children from abuse would it be worth it?  There are alternative ways of disciplining children that exist, so it doesn’t seem impossible that you could still raise great kids. 

I do, however, understand the concern of government taking too much control away from parents in the decision making process. 

I have no children and I’m not sure I would spank them if I did.  Maybe the naughty corner would be better?

Cach,

“Spare the rod and spoil the child” comes to mind.  While “He who does not discipline his child, does not love his child” doesn’t address spanking specifically, spanking IS a form of discipline when used correctly.  There’s a definite difference between spanking a child and hitting a child.  Hitting is done in anger, retaliation, revenge, etc. and there’s no discipline involved.  It causes unnecessary fear.  Spanking can and is a very effective method of discipline if used appropriately and done in love.

Beth

I’m not saying that Scripture prohibits spanking or discipline, but the Proverbs aren’t commandments.  They are a collection of human knowledge, experience, and wisdom.  They make no claim of divine inspiration and are quite often subjective or projective.  Again, that’s not an argument that says Scripture prohibits corporal punishment, but it certainly isn’t an endorsement of it let alone a commandment.

All I can say on this subject is I THANK GOD my parents spanked me. If they hadn’t I’d more than likely be in jail. I’m not kidding I was a TERRIBLE child.